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 Post subject: VP-man and BAM - need help
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 5:31 pm
Posts: 9
Hi

I've been using VP and FP for many years, but not the last couple of years.

Now I wanted to do a "fresh install", Formatted my old laptop etc.

I have always used VP-man... I love that frontend, it is very flexible and to me, it's just as much about having a database that documents Pinball History, as it is about gaming. I like to nerd with info, flyers etc and I have a thing for High scores in the frontend.

So I'd like to keep VP-man, but now I installed the new thing: FP+BAM in one installer, with a new FPlauncher in the BAM directory.

I read the help on FP and BAM install, on pinsimdb, beneath the link for download the double installer, on the frontpage.

Now a new situation, launching table "2001" via:
- FP directly works fine
- FP+BAM works fine, I can use the new BAM GUI
- FP via VP-man works fine
- FP+BAM via VP-man doesn't work, table loads but freezes at BAM GUI and nothing on keyboard except ctrl+alt+del works. Message "Future Pinball stopped working"
And when launching table "T2" v. 1.02 Physics 2.6 via:
- FP+BAM works fine, I can use the new BAM GUI
- FP+BAM via VP-man doesn't work, table doesn't load fully, it stops at maybe 70% and nothing on keyboard except ctrl+alt+del works. Message "Future Pinball stopped working"

So I can launch the tables with FP with and without VP-man, I can launch them with FP + BAM, but not via VP-man (letting VP-man think fplauncher in BAM directory is FP).

Even though I run windows 7 on an old laptop, I don't get it. How can I make VP-man start the tables in FP+BAM? I can launch FP+BAM via VP-man, load a table for editing, but when I press Play / F5 I end up with a green circle saying "5 balls - Scrolling Off", or if using Physics higher than 1.0: not loading the table.

Is VP-man starting fplauncher in a wrong way, or disturbing it in a way, or...? Could it be because I made the high performance settings in video / rendering, in FP?

Hope you can help me :)


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 Post subject: Re: VP-man and BAM - need help
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2695
Location: Arkansas, USA
I have never used VP-man but found its web site and noticed that development of it stopped in 2009. It looks like VP-man may not be compatible with FP/BAM. But to make FP/BAM work you need to run "FPLoader.exe" in the BAM folder instead of "Future Pinball.exe" to start FP/BAM. Hopefully, you can set what executable runs somewhere.

If that doesn't work, maybe you can set it to run the *.fpt file. It would be like double clicking on a *.doc file to open the file with MS Word. If VP-man can run a table that way, you would need to make some changes to FP and can follow my tutorial here:

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5653


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 Post subject: Re: VP-man and BAM - need help
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:33 am 
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 5:31 pm
Posts: 9
Hi George. Thanks for your advice.
After experiments and much reading, I conclude VP-man has nothing to do with it, because now it seems I can't get tables to function with FP+BAM without VP-man either.
The problem is Physics 1.0 tables will load, but freezes, and Physics 2.something tables wont load... it stalls in the process of "Initializing Playfield Objects".
I must search on. Will make an new post if I can't find an answer :-)


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 Post subject: Re: VP-man and BAM - need help
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2695
Location: Arkansas, USA
Are you using the original "Future Pinball.exe" file that installs with FP or replaced it with one of the alternate executable files that you can get here?

http://www.pinsimdb.org/pinres/entry-16 ... able_files

If you have replaced it, you should only use the executable file and none of the other files that may be in the download. The other files may make FP crash.

If you are using an alternate executable without the extra files, the table should start even though the physics may be wrong.

Hopefully you have followed my FP guide here:

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=6054

and my BAM guide here:

viewtopic.php?f=86&t=5544

Most of the new tables have the physics XML saved in the script.

Maybe VP-man corrupted FP or BAM because you said it worked before using VP-man. You might try to reinstall.

I hope this helps.

George


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 Post subject: Re: VP-man and BAM - need help
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 5:31 pm
Posts: 9
Hi George :)

I use the exe that installed with the combined FP+BAM setup.

More experiments, reinstalls as you suggested...
It seems that if I don't install VP-man, then BAMfolder>fploader.exe works fine on both 2001 and T2 tables. When I use VP man on Future Pinball.exe both tables loads and plays, and if VP-man is told to use fploader.exe things go wrong.

It's not the shortcut / Compability settings. I tried with or without them on both files...

I'll test some more.

EDIT: NO, CAN’T DO LIKE BELOW THEN HISCORES WONT BE SAVED IN FRONTEND.
If everything fails, I will have to start the BAM tables outside my frontend, and the browse, read and stuff plus start NoBAM tables in VPman. Not all tables are marked the same way. Is there a place where I can find a list of what tables are BAM or NoBAM

I have read both your install-help manuals, and try to do what they say.

Greetings


Last edited by erling1000 on Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: VP-man and BAM - need help
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2972
Location: Ontario, Canada
Every table is a BAM table whether it knows it or not :)

Bam has sooo many enhancements that choosing to not use it makes little sense having said that if you wish to run a table without BAM avoid all tables in the past 4 years that have Gimli, Slamt1lt, GeorgeH, Wild ,Nitrinimbus,Ravarcade,TerryRed,blue, Franzleo, Monnezzas, Frnacisco666 as contributers


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 Post subject: Re: VP-man and BAM - need help
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2695
Location: Arkansas, USA
erling1000 wrote:
...Is there a place where I can find a list of what tables are BAM or NoBAM?


I don't know of a way to create a list. It is not all that difficult to tell from the postings on PinSimDB. On my postings, you can't get past the first paragraph and not know. The other table developers will almost always tell you also. Some tables can't be run without BAM because they use new features like dynamic flippers and shadow maps.

Many of the older tables use BAM to manage different versions of physics and not much else.

The very old tables and none of Tii's tables need BAM. Many of the new EM tables do not require BAM.

You could always use my idea of adding short cuts to a folder to run tables. I remember one of the guys uses a very old program as front end that I thinks works with BAM.

...But as Gimli says, I use BAM for all tables. It is just easier to not have to decide if a table needs BAM or not. I use it to manage physics for all tables. I use an alternate exe file and added a default.xml for Physics 1.0 so even the old tables use BAM on my system.

George


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 Post subject: Re: VP-man and BAM - need help
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 5:31 pm
Posts: 9
:) Quote my self
EDIT: NO, CAN’T DO LIKE BELOW THEN HISCORES WONT BE SAVED IN FRONTEND.
If everything fails, I will have to start the BAM tables outside my frontend, and the browse, read and stuff plus start NoBAM tables in VPman. Not all tables are marked the same way. Is there a place where I can find a list of what tables are BAM or NoBAM
:) Unquote

OK, and I get your points on BAM. Tomorrow I will experiment on, its night here. Is there a way to see why table stops loading in Initialising Playfield Objects / FP freezes, like a debug log? Or to see if VPman changes anything vital?

Bye


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 Post subject: Re: VP-man and BAM - need help
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2695
Location: Arkansas, USA
erling1000 wrote:
Is there a way to see why table stops loading in Initialising Playfield Objects / FP freezes, like a debug log? Or to see if VPman changes anything vital?


Not really. BAM creates a crash log but only Ravarcade understands what it says.


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 Post subject: Re: VP-man and BAM - need help
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 5:31 pm
Posts: 9
Hi fellow pinballers 8-)

New developement :)

I experimented a lot this evening...

It's not just VP-man that makes the errors:

I uninstall VP, FP+BAM, VPman. Then install FP+BAM and VP, not VPman. The error continues. So I uninstall both and only install FP+BAM. Noticing that windows remembers the settings for the shortcuts, (compability, run as admin etc) so that I dont have to set them again. Normal?

Well I experimeted a lot and found it must be a deeper problem, like on my pc, my settings or windows? When I just install FP+BAM (no frontend or VP) I can reproduce the error this way:

My shortcut FP+BAM is "C:\Emulator\Pinball\Future Pinball\BAM\FPLoader.exe"

1) When I start FP+BAM on BAM-shortcut and I load the table via
FILE > OPEN > tablefolder > table > OPEN > TABLE > PLAY TABLE (or F5) it loads fine.

2) When I close the first table and loads the same table or another via the FILE-menu and choose one of the ten last tables (Windows remembered them and my FPsettings even though I uninstalled) in the bottom of the menu it loads fine.

3) THE ERROR: ONLY when I start FP+BAM on BAM-shortcut and as the FIRST table choose one from the ten last tables-menu, the error occurs, and FP stop working and freezes. Exactly the same way as my VP-man problem... my new theory is that VP-man uses the same way to load tables and then makes FP+BAM freeze.[/color]

If I can find out why and how I'd be glad, because then I might be able to change that?

If not, then I might have to start all my tables the right way, and then just use VP-man as documentation / database, which is kind of troublesome, not being able to launch from the frontend.

Any thoughts? By the way, VP-man doesnt change FP+BAM, cause when I use the frontend on FPloader it makes the error like 3), but then I can start and play tables like 1) or 2)

Greetings


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